2 year old article. Stupid comment. Low key true but still stupid.
Over 15k verifiable playable games work on Linux
It’s about the drm and anticheat, nothing more.
Not even, anti cheat can be configured to work on Linux and even through Proton, this is just Tim being himself.
I play csgo 2 with no issues
because Valve makes the steam deck, and CS2 doesn’t use kernel-level anticheat
Good old Tim never misses an opportunity to tell Linux users about his nonsense dated opinions
This is a 2 and a half (almost) year old article. I figured Tim’s thoughts on this were common knowledge at this point?
The problem will only get solved if there will be reliable methods for detecting cheats that don’t require direct ingeration in a client operating system directly.
Are there ways of doing that reliably?
Probably not yet
This is old news but I do often think about the flaw in Tim Sweeney’s strategy to try and bully apple and Microsoft into making their platforms work his way.
Honestly Epic should have got in the Linux bandwagon years ago so they could provide their own hardware.
Lmfao SO many games that were never meant to run on Linux work perfectly well on my machine, some better than windows. He’s just throwing a hissy fit because Linux won’t allow kernel level malware - I mean anti-cheat. What a dickhead. Apex is a better game anyway.
The wording in the tweet in the article is a little less bombastic. He’s concerned about maintaining anti-cheat for custom kernels and other Linux-exclusive issues at the scale that Fortnite runs at. Given how large the audience for that game is and the age range (which has a lot more time to dedicate) I can see how that would be a costly endeavor and look at TF2 right now as an example of what happens if you fail to do so. Combine that with the much smaller footprint of the Linux base (which is changing!) and thus, less incentive to tackle any of that in the first place.
Maybe I’m just trying to not read ill intent, but I see “Linux gamers are a hard audience to serve” as “You guys use an OS focused on freedom and customization, which means it’s literally harder to serve you all effectively” and not as “Linux gamers are mean”.
I don’t think that the bots problem in tf2 is because of linux, I think that valve just doesn’t care about tf2 enough to fix it
Oh, no, I wasn’t tying that to Linux. It’s just an example of how you can generate a very negative situation for your game if you do not maintain anticheat to a quality expectation.
#fixtf2
Or ya know, the steam deck is on a platform they are trying to take over by throwing money at their store. Of course they aren’t going to make it easy for kids to play on deck.
Custom kernels aren’t commonly used, it’s a niche within a niche. They literally don’t need to “tackle” anything here, they can just support the Steam Deck and call it a day.
The biggest legitimate concern here is cheating, since cheaters could conceivably customize their kernel to bypass whatever EAC does. That’s a theoretical attack only, and there are plenty more theoretical attacks that aren’t unique to Linux.
It’s not an issue of compatibility, but Tim thinking he owns your computer. I don’t want any software that needs to control my computer; if it can’t run in a sandbox, I don’t want it. I understand him worrying about a base level of compatibility, but I don’t have any sympathy for the “but Linux is so diverse” argument, officially support one and the rest will figure it out.
I think ‘we won’t serve you cause we can’t rootkit your device’ also rubs some linux people wrong, but to each their own ig
Yeah but they haven’t bothered making their store run natively on linux.
Yep and that’s a separate issue I think you would be perfectly entitled to be upset about. I’m just thinking through serving something as complex as anticheat to an audience the size of Fortnite’s for the potential gain of a small Linux footprint (for now). Not many businesses would jump for that.
They deliberately DROPPED linux support for rocket league when they bought it. Like, immediately. It’s just a hate-on for Linux.
This would be news if it were current. At 2 years old it’s just clickbait
Linux users are not your audience. Owners of the Steam Deck are. I’d wager the vast majority of Deck users do not have a computer that runs Linux. You don’t really need to know how to do anything in Linux even in desktop mode. The environment is so similar to mac and windows for most tasks.
He’s just pissy about the idea of designing anything that would benefit Steam; the heavyweight he has tried and failed to emulate.
And it represents so few people that the investment isn’t worth it, especially as most of them have a hate boner for Epic.
Sweeney generally has a hate boner for Linux. It’s nothing really new.
Why tf would you post this without at least putting a date on it lol
I noticed too late, I forgot the steam deck is old now.
Wow, there are a lot of entitled Linux users in here.
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Some would say not having Fortnite on Linux is a feature…
No. I don’t care for them game, but I want people to be able to play it on Linux still.
I mean… I don’t really disagree in this specific context.
I assume Fortnite has kernel level/rootkit anti-cheat. And Epic make massive amounts of cash from all the goku skins people buy. Unless they have the resources to test at least the major distros and keep aware of possible hacks/bypasses on that side it is just begging for exploits. And it is big enough that the moment one is identified EVERYBODY is grabbing an ubuntu live CD to get some goku dollars.
I still think it is shit that they don’t directly support Linux with the EGS (especially since they distribute Unreal Engine and marketplace stuff via that). But for their “more revenue than the GDP of a small nation” live game? I get it.
A buddy who works on one of the popular live games made the comparison to pokemon cards. Everyone thinks it is a great idea to show them off at school. Until the kid trips, they get scattered on the floor, and it is a god damned feeding frenzy of every single kid losing their minds to scramble and fight over that dog eared pikachu card.
He can go fuck himself with a 6" railroad spike.
At least Gaben is pushing the Linux gaming community forward!
BUT 30%!!!
Yeah, that 30% means I can ditch Windows. At least it’s being used for good and not just* yachts.
Pretty sure Gaben has a yacht too.
A bunch of them, he’s just another billionaire but people can’t help defending him.
Uh, not to take away from your point about Steam making it possible to ditch Windows, but that money is absolutely being put towards buying yachts. Gabe Newel owns $1 billion worth of yachts, 6 of them in total. Like, good on Valve for making Linux accessible, but the money is still quite literally going towards Gabe’s yacht collection.
Yeah, I meant to throw a “not just yachts” in there but my brain don’t work right. We all have our passions. At least the guy looks out for the industry through the eyes of a consumer and doesn’t behave like a pissbaby.
Only if we ignore that a lot of Valve’s pro consumers practices are things that were legally imposed and that their 30% cut is driving up costs for consumers and that they actually use anti competitive tactics to prevent other platforms from actually competing.
that money is absolutely being put towards buying yachts
Did anybody claim that Valve’s entire earnings go into Linux gaming? Of course it’s only a tiny fraction but that tiny fraction is more than anybody else put into Linux gaming.
Also, Gabe Newell also owns an Aston Martin sportscar team called Heart of Racing, so it’s not just yachts. They’ll compete in Le Mans next weekend in case anybody cares.
I’m not sure I follow. The comment I was replying to said Valve’s 30% cut isn’t being put towards buying yachts, but it is. Apparently racing teams too. Whether they’re doing good things for linux gaming or not, Gabe is still a billionaire and he sure spends the money like one.
Gaben is well-known for being a yacht aficionado, and owns several large ones.
Anyone who actually complains about steam’s cut is either misinformed or lying.
There’s the weakest defense of a capitalistic business practice you could come up with…
“It’s the industry’s standard!”
Ok, if the standard was 50% and someone came along and said “Know what? We can do the same thing for 20%” would you be defending those charging 50%? What if it was 75%?
The reality is, they’re taking 30% because their position allows them to do so and people don’t care enough about those actually doing the work to create games to push Valve to change their ways. Valve is as greedy as any other company.
Remember folks, Gaben is a billionaire that owns multiple yachts, he’s not your friend, he’s making a fuck load of money instead of making sure you get the most from your money, Valve could lower their cut by a whole lot while still being extremely profitable.
30% is the standard. And it’s absurd. They all do it because they all have their own walled garden territory, and it doesn’t benefit any of them to lower prices.
You’re telling me that Steam does 30% of the effort to create and publish a game?
They distribute games, which is something in addition to creating and publishing.
Whatever percentage they use is based on an average across wildly different games. A large game with frequent updates doesn’t need to pay steam for the work on steam’s end each update. They don’t need to pay for each tine someone downloads their game, or for the ongoing costs to upgrade steam over time to continue supporting their game. They have a set percentage per sale so they can easily calculate how many units they need to sell to break even.
If the game’s sales die off they don’t need to pay for steam to continue support. At any time they can use the popularity of a new release to renew interest in past releases without any extra requires work. When game sequels blow up, the publisher doesn’t need to do anything to get sales money from new sales of the prior versions. The prior games are just there, waiting to make the publisher money.
How much value do you think any distribution platform provides?
Steam would be profitable at 12%.
…what? Yeah, 30% is the standard when there are higher costs and higher risks. Why would it not follow that Steam using the same percentage - with lower costs and none of the physical-based risk - is simply greed?
It’s still the market standard for digital stores, and if steam was greedy they could absolutely charge more with their market dominance.
For comparison audible has audiobook market dominance, and takes a 75% cut. If you agree to make your audiobook audible exclusive, they’ll “only” take 60% of the profit, and many audiobook authors take that deal because getting an extra 15% cut on audible is worth more than the sales from other audiobook stores.
Audible is what you get when a greedy corporation has market dominance, in comparison Steam’s cuts are very tame for all the benefits they give.
Or maybe they were as greedy as they could be without risking another company coming and taking their place, they also protected themselves against that by including a clause that prevents selling games cheaper on other stores so even if someone comes and tries to compete the devs are stuck because they need to choose if losing access to Steam’s monopoly is worth it to be able to sell their game cheaper to end up with the same amount per copy in their pockets.
they also protected themselves against that by including a clause that prevents selling games cheaper on other stores
Is that even a real thing? Other stores sell games cheaper all the time. Even when buying steam games it’s usually cheapest to buy the steam key from another store, because someone else will have it on sale for cheaper.
It’s part of their contract, Wolfire Games is suing them for anti competitive practices.
Its not one to one, but providing digital services is not exactly cheap. Data centers and servers take a lot of costs, both the electricity and salary for a team of ops engineers to keep it running smoothly. The building, conditioning, maintenance, insurance, storage, equipment. To ensure low lag and high download speeds you need several data centers with data caches in different regions of the world. If anything it is actually more risky. If a store closes the stock was already paid for by the the owner to the publisher. Zero risk for the publisher. If Steam goes down, it brings windows of opportunity for sales with it and not a dime is secured. They pay for the uptime and quality of service, not just processing a payment once and a download link with a shitty 72 h expiry time. People expect access to their digital goods 24/7 virtually forever. Steam provides it all with a myriad more of business and client facing services that a physical store would simply be incapable of providing.
Why would it not follow that Steam using the same percentage - with lower costs and none of the physical-based risk - is simply greed?
Most of the retailers mentioned in that article were also digital only and had the exact same or less risk. Steam certainly does a lot to try and get people’s money, but they aren’t just greedily fucking over Devs for that 30%, that is in fact industry standard.
I also have no doubt that Epic will enshitify itself and raise its rate closer to 30% after growing.
If you look at the overall cost of running a platform though, especially one that does several things, you can see where that 30% becomes viable.
A few things to highlight are, long-term storage and availability of purchases. There is not a single game I have bought on Steam in close to 20 years that I can’t still download and play to this day. Many of those are games that are no longer available for sale on the storefront yet valve as a content provider keeps them available to me and likely will in perpetuity.
There’s an argument to be made that storage is cheap but they are also storing other people’s things that are no longer generating revenue for them. Also, they are providing the bandwidth for us as users to download those games whenever and as many times as we like without concern for how many copies of title sold or who the initial publisher or developer was.
When you look at something like a console provider such as Nintendo or Microsoft who will completely shut down legacy stores, it makes the value of valve taking a unilateral 30% all the more attractive. Anything I buy on Steam I will be able to download and play in perpetuity. That 30% goes to making sure this isn’t just for big-name or the current hot shit. This is for everything ever put on their platform.
Sure, in a vacuum 30% seems like a lot but when you consider the overall maintenance costs and the fact that they have seemed to be pretty pro-consumer all along, The intrinsic value in what they’re offering becomes a lot easier to see.
Two issues, you can download and play your games in ‘perpetuity’ so long as Valve continues on the current operating model.
And Valve has not been particularly consumer friendly in the past.
They were found to be violating consumer rights in Australia at the very least and had to put a large notification on their storefront to disclose exactly what they had been wrong.
Valve were forced into providing a refund model and even then it often conflicts with consumer interest. Though admittedly bad actors will always try to abuse any refund model on digital products.
I also wanted to add on a recent experience I had that highlights this even more so.
I was going through old archive drives and found a digital copy of “The Club” that I had purchased from Direct2Drive. I don’t know if anybody remembers them or not but, they were one of the early digital storefronts that focused on PC digital downloads.
Anyways, I had the installer and my provided key in the directory so I installed the game and attempted to launch it only to be met with an activation screen. When I attempted to activate those servers had long since been decommissioned so I was dead in the water. Feeling that sting that one gets when they can no longer play something they legally purchased I started searching around for information on workarounds before I grabbed a crack. I found a thread from the company that had purchased the rights to all direct2drive purchases that had a workaround for doing the authentication through an alternate method.
I tried all the steps listed including performing a recovery process for an account that I had long since lost the login information for only to be met with a failed authentication once again. By this point I had invested close to an hour maybe an hour and a half of my time trying to get some shitty old game to work and decided it wasn’t worth it.
I hopped over to Steam and saw that I was able to purchase the game directly from them for $5 and download it immediately without any need for additional authentication steps or trying to track down who had purchased the rights to give me access rights to the thing that I had purchased 15 years ago.
Sure, my one experience may be anecdotal but I think it highlights some of the greater issues people might not take into consideration when talking about what valve’s cut is and what that represents to us as the users of the services they provide.
If their revenues were close to their running costs Gaben wouldn’t own multiple yachts, stop defending a company that made a billionaire out of its owner while you’re making less a year than he burns in a day on his boat.
I don’t begrudge him running a successful business. And I didn’t give a shit about who you feel I can or cannot defend. Lol.
Just because there’s an outdated industry standard doesn’t mean it should be perpetuated, let alone supported, for eternity. Valve’s server hosting costs on a per-installation basis have fallen substantially since they first launched Steam, so there’s no reason why the 30% cut is still necessary; even 20% would leave them a sizable profit margin. I’m not a fan of the Epic Game Store for bribing companies to not release their games on Steam for a set amount of time, and choose not to use it as a result, but it’s time that the 30% industry standard be dropped. In purchasing a game I want to support continued development of that franchise, and $15 of a $50 purchase going to the storefront is not only excessive and inflationary, but harms developers as well.
I guess you wouldm’t be complaining if they never improved efficiencies then, since decreasing costs should apparently be passed on to distributers. Shame on them for improving their business sonthey could use those profits to create the steam deck and other benefits for gamers instead of propping up the profits of game companies!
Should game companies lower their proces based on volume of sales when they make ‘enough’ profit?
You’re the one that ends up paying for it though, games could be cheaper, instead Valve just increases its profits.
I am getting my money’s worth.
Ok, that’s just idiotic…
Valve could still operate as it currently does, including having sufficient profits to account for R&D and long-term costs, at a lower cut of platform sales (as another commenter mentioned, Gabe Newell’s billion dollar yacht collection is demonstrative of the platform’s profitability, especially when one considers how much it costs to maintain ships). Products such as the Steam Deck make money for Valve too, as Steam Deck users (myself included) statistically buy more games on Steam as a result. I don’t support profiteering efforts by game publishers either, such as the Factorio price increase attributed to inflation, $70 game releases attributed to inflation when digital releases have reduced their costs, and micro transactions in general. In any case, however, given that cost increases are always the consumer’s responsibility, cost decreases should not simply be a means for companies to bolster their profit margins.
I am fine with someone who set up and runs a successful business that is in no way predatory and is a benefit to employees, consumers, and the companies that use their product to have an excess amount of money. They are doing capitalism the right way and actually earned the benefits.
Games going up to $70 are not becsuse of the 30% cut. They wouldn’t go down if that percentage dropped either. I play multiple games that were always sold at $40 or less as full games and they have been massively profitable.
So it’s not predatory to let games become more expensive while also reducing running costs? Because if you run the numbers it means they’re just increasing their profits by charging the same % and forcing devs and publishers to increase the cost of games to compensate for development costs increasing. The only winner here is Valve, maybe you should start defending your own interests instead of defending the interests of a billionaire.
