(Cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26559848/)
Some significant news for Telegram users!
See this article for some interesting backstory context on Pavel Durov and Telegram: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-telegram-billionaire-and-his-dark-empire-a-f27cb79f-86ae-48de-bdbd-8df604d07cc8
Since the post article is in French, here’s an auto-translation:
Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of the encrypted messaging service Telegram, was arrested around 8 p.m. on Saturday evening as he got off his private jet on the tarmac of Le Bourget airport. The 39-year-old Franco-Russian was accompanied by his bodyguard and a woman.
The arrest was carried out by the gendarmes of the GTA (Air Transport Gendarmerie). Registered in the RPF (wanted persons file), Pavel Durov came straight from Azerbaijan. He had over his head a French search warrant issued by the OFMIN of the National Directorate of the French Judicial Police, issued on the basis of a preliminary investigation.
Why was he under threat of a search warrant?
The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the police and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedophile offences and fraud.
This search warrant ran if, and only if, Pavel Durov was on national territory. “He made a mistake tonight. We don’t know why… Was this flight just a step? In any case, he’s locked up!” a source close to the investigation told TF1/LCI. Since he knew he was persona non grata in France, Pavel Durov used to travel to the Emirates, the countries of the former USSR, South America… He travelled very little in Europe and avoided countries where Telegram is under surveillance.
And now?
Investigators from the ONAF (National Anti-Fraud Office attached to the Customs Directorate) notified him and placed him in police custody. He is expected to be presented to an investigating judge this Saturday evening before a possible indictment on Sunday for a multitude of offences: terrorism, drugs, complicity, fraud, money laundering, concealment, paedophile content…
“Pavel Durov will end up in pre-trial detention, that’s for sure,” comments an investigator to TF1/LCI. “On his platform, he allowed an incalculable number of misdemeanours and crimes to be committed for which he does nothing to moderate or cooperate,” said a source close to the case.
His pre-trial detention at the end of his indictment is indeed in no doubt. Pavel Durov, a billionaire, has substantial means to flee and his guarantees of representation will hardly convince the judges.
A net with international resonance
For the investigators, this international sweep has various objectives. First, it makes it possible to kick the anthill, impress and deter the perpetrators of crimes and offences who exchange, until now, freely on Telegram. Secondly, they aim to put pressure on European countries to step up joint work to make secure messaging on terrorist cases bend.
Indeed, Telegram is a hive of criminal content. At the moment, the platform is in the news with the illegal broadcasting of Ligue 1 matches. But on this encrypted messaging service, many accounts are used by organized crime. Beyond terrorism, the most dangerous pedophiles communicate on Telegram to exchange content. “It has become for years THE number 1 platform for organized crime,” comments an investigator.
Maybe the difference is that the signal developers aren’t rich people flying around the EU on private jets? Maybe there’s no value in targeting the signal devs because they can’t legally be expected to moderate chats they literally can not access? Maybe it’s not worth backdooring because it’s open source?
Maybe the difference is that the signal developers aren’t rich people flying around the EU on private jets?
Telegram is not first durov project. Durov create VK. That is number one Russian facebook.
Maybe there’s no value in targeting the signal device because they can’t legally be expected to moderate cats they literally can not access?
Can them connect any number of users in chat? That mean that them have access in any chat. And them should follow all USA laws of course.
Maybe it’s not worth backdooring because it’s open source?
Telegram open source too. And have many open client apps. For example clients without AD API support. How much custom client apps have signal?
Telegram’s servers are not open source. Telegram’s client is. If you make a back door in a messaging software, you’d want to do it server-side which means the users can’t tell if it’s backdoored as Telegram’s server’s source code is not available.
Alternatively; Signal’s server code is open source, so if they put a back door in it they’d either have to lie to their users, or publish the back door in their code.
Telegrams servers are not open source. Telegram client is. If you make a back door in a messaging software, you’d want to do it server-side which means the users can’t tell if it’s backdoored as Telegram’s server’s source code is not available.
That’s why cryptography don’t trust ANY server side. For example signal server software can be don’t same as github signal server software. And that’s why alice and bob in crypto chats can check keys after handshake through server. But in signal you crypto for chat rooms with multiple clients. Can you check how much client in you chat? I don’t find how. In telegram you always know that 1to1chat only 1to1.
Alternatively; Signal’s server code is open source, so if they put a backdoor in it they’d either have to lie to their users, or publish the back door in their code.
And what problem with that?
P.S. For example system of technical means to ensure the functions of operational investigative measures installed an all mobile operators anywhere. But someone tell you something about that? No. Because that a law, not backdor.
But in signal you crypto for chat rooms with multiple clients
Signal doesn’t backfill your messages though, it just sends the new messages to both devices. I don’t see how this makes it less secure than Telegram.
I don’t see how this makes it less secure than Telegram.
Telegram less secure than signal in normal chats. Key saved on server side and, technically, anyone can read all messages. That’s argument was used when men says that telegram don’t secure some time ago.
But what kind of secure you expect? Random admin in your internet provider can’t read telegram and signal messages anyway. Messengers developers can’t read signal messages in base case, but can read telegram public chats. That’s true.
But what happened if we go to next level and check telegram 1 to 1 crypto chats vs signal chats. Signal chats can read messenger developers with basic hack (add one more person in chat and collect messages on disk). Or can read FBI by law. That mean in signal, as in telegram public, all work on trust, not in cryptography. Telegram 1to1 chats only 1to1. No one can’t access to that (without change keys). And for best secure rekeing happens every 100 messages or 1 week. And one more, you can register telegram account without number and hide your IP with mtproto-proxy. That’s why Durov arrested in frist place. And after that men tell that signal more secure then telegram… An what place?
Signal chats can read messenger developers with basic hack (add one more person in chat and collect messages on disk)
How exactly do you think that would work? To add a new recipient the client needs to explicitly encrypt messages with a key available to that recipient. What command in the Signal protocol would trigger that action without first establishing trust in the recipient? (FYI when adding a new device, there is a key-exchange and verification process, which requires access to some other device with keys already on it).
